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December 02, 2011

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I thought the smell came from rotten
leaves or the other industrial business
on or around Dunlop dr.

Wow does this mean somebody at city hall
lied to the public???
See T.M Cochrane,G.O.C. if the citizens
just sat back and said nothing and waited
for the city to come forward they still
would be hiding under their desks.
Whether it is a new plant working out the
bugs or not i am glad that people spoke up
and confronted this administration.

Well wonders never cease, thank you for responding. I am wondering if we the taxpayers of Guelph could get your personal assurance that along with the results of the Maple Reinder's action plan you would also share with us all additional costs this unfortunate situation creates for said taxpayers. That is any cost above and beyond the $30,000,000 plus already spent. This should fit in well with your commitment to a transparent municipal government.
Thanks
Geo

D and C
You have inferred something that is simply not true. I have never once suggested that the smell didn't exist and certainly not that the affected residents should not speak up.
I have on several occasions contacted the appropriate personnel to discuss issues that affected my work and residential facilities.

My only points in related to this issue have been that blaming the Mayor for a facility that isn't performing as stated is a knee jerk reaction and I also agreed that we should allow time to shake things out and see if it's just that something wasn't installed right or whatever the case may be.

I pride myself on staying calm, cool and collected in times of challenge or crisis so as to see thing objectively and make good decisions. I'd hate to be part of your work team or your family if your reactions on here to constantly point fingers, blame before investigating are similar to how you behave all the time.


T.M.Cochrane
My only response to you is like i said
earlier.If the residents sat back and waited
on the mayor and the other clowns at city
hall to "fix"this problem it would be like
flipping back time to 2005.Just like then
the city officials were blaming the other
industries on Dunlop dr than the actual
building that is producing the smells.
Now is she not the head of this corporation
called Guelph and responsible for city
buildings.I mean did we the citizens of
Guelph pay for this building (yes).I know what you are going to say as of right now
another company is going to run the plant
for the city but the bottom line is who
paid for the building and all this specialized equipment in said building.
Was she not the one out there doing the
special tour showing off the new Guelph
plant?(yes)Did she not have the mercury
out there for the photo op on the new
plant (yes).Was she not the one among others saying that it is odour free before
she knew this to be true.
One thing i learned on this earth is to
not rely on everybody out there because if
you do you are going to get burned.
Now the comment about my work team and family is a low blow and i do not care to
stoop down to your level.

d and c as usual:
Don't waste your time responding to the T.M. Cochrane, there is no one of that name listed in the phone book. Which only means that is an alias like most of the others on this blog - yours and mine included. But it is evident from the posts that T.M. is a supporter of the Mayor. The Mayor is the pusher of the "Green Agenda" in Guelph and she could not wait to announce that Guelph was once again the "Environmental Leader"! What a crock - it stinks more than her second failed attempt at a compost plant.
Get the message lady. Compost Plants will never be Odor Free. They should never be within 500 metres of a residential area. Got it Madam Mayor? I very much doubt it.
So how much has her Environmental Agenda cost the City to date? over $50 millions by my reckoning. That is half of the City's current debt not counting the $30 million Hydro note that was also squandered away.
So my advice is ignore the Mayor's peanut gallery and keep attacking the legacy of Waste, Mismanagement and Staff dismissals that have a gag attached to them. It is time for Municipal Affairs to do an audit of this City. Long overdue.

Just to clarify... T.M. Cochrane is not the same person as T.M.

I do agree with T.M. Cochrane though that there's a lot of smoke but no fire in these discussions. Spewing out garbage about political vanity on forcing recycling plants on Guelph to claim environmental glory is just nonsense. Edmonton is the leader when it comes to composting facilities-- they have the biggest in the world which has been running for eleven years. Sixty acres, and they expect their diversion rate to hit 90% in 2013.

In this recent NY Times piece, New York City points to Edmonton as the model to follow with composting as the solution to diversion for landfill. Quote: "Edmontonians claim their facility emits no odors".

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/answers-from-a-garbologist-part-3/

and this article "Edmonton is a world-class composting city":
http://www.hrs-group.net/news/en/2011/04/29/edmonton-is-a-worldclass-composting-city.aspx

TM:
I know that you are not the same as T.M.Cochrane.
Thanks for the two links. I really appreciated the content.
A lesson I havv learned early in life is that people who brag about being classy, or LEADERS or accomplished are usually very insecure. If you are great in what you do, others will praise you for it. No need for self-indulgence or self aggrandixement!
So the Mayor's feeble attempts to say we are Environmental Leaders is utter crap
Or as we used to say in Manitobs -
"Don't eat that Albert - That's Horse S--t!"
If you are really capable other people will tell it. If not, no amount of fiction will make it so.
So it is so refreshing to see a City like New York praise a True Environmental Leader like Edmonton.
High praise, something that the Mayor will probably never experience no matter how may times she tries at the expense of the Taxpayer. (Hopefully this is the last one).
I hope that this year Santa delivers an Odorless Compost Plant under the Mayor's Christmas Tree, What the heck - she may as well believe in Santa, she already believes in a Odorless Compost Plant!

OK, if plastics, etc. are the enemy in managing the odours that can otherwise occur with anaerobic respiration and in producing compost you'd actually want to use, and if I am correct in assuming a certain percentage range of "clean" compostables are part of how AIM predicated their costing, and the design limits, what happens when we get the bins, when our collections staff can't visually inspect the contents before dumping them -- and we consistently exceed that range? What happens? How does the City intend on ensuring curbside compliance? How much extra time is required for that? As it is now, the collector looks at the green bag and pretty much instantly knows if they should throw it in the truck or throw a sticker on it. I must be missing something here. Surely.

January 6, 2010

Madam Mayor, Guelph City Council
City of Guelph, City Hall
59 Carden Street,
Guelph, ON N1H 3A1

Re: Proposed Organics Facility
Guelph Waste Resource Innovation Centre
110 Dunlop Drive
Guelph Ontario


Madam Mayor,

We were given the impression in the open house sessions and the meetings directly with the consultants and staff, that the system proposed to prevent odours was the best and were given detailed explanations by Biotherm as to why. Can you please explain to members of Guelph Waste Management Coalition, why a credit was taken to deduct going with one combined biofilter in the contract that you signed with Maple Reinders to reconstruct the organics facility on July 31, 2009?


We look forward to your response, we remain,
Yours Truly,

Ken Spira - President.

Ken, I must admit I am confused by your letter.

Are you suggesting that the City decided prior to construction to modify the odour prevention system and go with something less?

D&C as usual;
We are in agreement in the sense that as i've already stated, a legitimate complaint is exactly that....legitimate. I have zero issue with standing up when things aren't right and asking for, looking for a resolution. We know who pushed for it, we know who was proud of it when she opened it... nobody disputes any of that. If this turns out to be a flaw somewhere due to something Maple did or didn't do... Mayor's off the hook as far as i'm concerned. If it turns out this was never going to be "odour free" and the Mayor knew that...she's responsible to answer for that. At last check neither of us works for Maple or for any related City Dept. - thus, leaving us with no facts and speculation only. I'll reserve judgement until the facts are known. You choose your own path.

Cynic
Yes I support the Mayor as overall I believe Guelph to be a fantastic place to live. Perfect...far from it. Welcome to life.
My quality of life in many many ways has improved during the last decade, so despite tax hikes etc... I don't find a lot of reasons to be down on the City or the Mayor.
That's an opinion and only that. It doesn't make me right, it doesn't make you wrong. That's the neat thing about opinions, we're all equally entitled to them.

I sense from this forum that a lot of people here view Guelph's situation , but are unwilling to compare apples to apples so to speak. A few weeks back I posted some links comparing Guelphs debt to some other cities. i did a little homework on the weekend and found many many examples of current and recent lawsuits either filed by Cities or against Cities, and they showed up EVERYWHERE! Computer financing, arena financing, hospital projects, wetlands destruction, road projects, bridge projects, major capital purchases...

PS - the phone book is hardly an accurate source of information. I haven't owned a house phone for the better part of a decade.
Slightly creepy I might add that you're trying to search for me, especially given that you operate with an alias. What next...try to google my residence and see what's in my driveway?

Indeed TM, it would be creepy to google what is in someone's driveway.

And it would be disappointingly unintelligent to ignore their opinion based on what was in said driveway.

And it would be even more asinine and irresponsible to actually allow that to occur.

Which all said, kinda makes one wonder about the mental acuity and leadership capabilities of those running the show on Carden Street.


T.M Cochrane
The problem with your theory is we will
never know the truth.
If the mayor is at fault do you really
think she is going to step up to the plate
or just fire another lacky and blame them.
And even if is the other company in question
it will not be admitted because that means
that there product is faulty.
All you have to do is look at the mayor's
and council record.
If you are truthful you will admit the
faults of this mayor and council.If not you should keep on your trail and i will
stay on mine.


Expect litigation.

Before everyone gets mad at each other and points fingers, pay very close attention to these words taken from the Mayor's letter.
She said that every step would be taken to make sure "the facility functions as intended."
Just what is that telling us?
What if the intended results are not the same as what the public has been led to believe?
Our Mayor has a way of picking her words very carefully and has often been able to insulate herself by doing so.
Please, pay close attention.

This blog is getting comical.

d and c
I tend to agree, we may never know the truth. Likely the company and the Mayor will protect their own interest, as we are all likely to do in most scenarios. so the flaw is not in my theory, it's in the system. Unless a factual truth emerges, I refuse to point fingers at either or.

Doug
Nobody should be suprised by a Politican choosing their words carefully. That's how they get elected, that's how they address the public... it's what they do.

Our mayor owns this issue.If the new compost plant turns out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread then congratulations, job well done. If it turns out to be another project that is not as advertised, does not work as promised and costs twice as much as expected then she should take full and complete responsibility for this situation. In my opinion if this second organics facility ends up a failure then our mayor should resign.

Failure as in failure to go to tonight's meeting? Stay home and let someone else define what success looks like? If course not, sort of. But notwithstanding that you have more pressing issues, or your sense that coming would have been an exercise in futility, that is the message just the same.

Hey D & C: If T.M. is, based on his or her comments on the composting plant, a supporter of the mayor, then I must be a supporter of the Mayor too.

Care to take another look at your position?

Craig - Last night's council mtg said it all. I saw two people in the gallery and you were one. Says a lot about all these arm chair critics here on 59, or is this an issue we are just going to roll over on and let happen? Cam and Gloria, thanks for trying but when you are not part of the Mayor's group it is tough. Logic is not part of this group. Craig, you know I would have been there, but still out west.

G.O.C
I see you are still a confused old man.
I never once said if or if not he was a
supporter of the mayor.That point to me is
mute.
All i said was that we will never know the
truth about this project or any other that
has happened in the last two terms.
I still see you are digging them latrines
and fighting old battles.
(keep swinging).

Hi Jim
You brought up some good points but the one
point you missed is this.
First since Farbridge has been
mayor has citizens of this city of ours
been able to sway her from the decision
that has already been made behind close
doors.
(just give me one?)Betcha can't?.

d and c - You win that bet hands down....

How would you know what decisions have been made "behind closed doors"? And how do you know we'll "never know the truth"?
Like most conspiracy theorists, you're using the logical fallacy of "begging the question". You're wasting our time.

The long and the short of this is that the compost facility has to meet it's CofA or else be fined/shut down by the MOE. If it constantly emits odours into the surrounding community, it will be in breach of it's CofA, whether or not it's "functioning as intended."

Hi Southie
All you have to do is look at the history
of this administration.
Have we yet had the full disclosure on the
bathroom (on city property)wall that fell
down on that girl?(no)Have we yet had the
full disclosure on the first construction
company that was contracted to build city
hall,you know the one that was fired.(no)
All the top brass firings that have been
happening at city hall?(no)
All the lawsuits that have been paid out
by this administration?All the ones that
are still pending?.(no)
The decision made even last night about
purchasing the bins for garbage removal.
It was brought up in council by many of
the councilors (you know that ones that are
not the farbridge posse)that more study needs to be done on the proposal.
But nope that makes too much sense and they just pushed it thru.
So even thou the ministry of the enviroment does not require Guelph to change from the bag system to the bins we are going to do it anyways.Hey what is a couple of more millions (i guess pocket
change for this administration)But it is
sure is not for me (blue collar worker).
So i hope you have a nice day in what
ever world you are in today Southie.

"functioning as intended." is a very important statement!
Even if the plant is shut down but is"functioning as intendedm" guess who gets the bill?
Here's a little math & logic problem.
The cost to send our green bag stuff out of town is $61.00 per tonne. Period, full stop that's it.
The cost to process green stuff in Guelph is $79.00 per tonne + facility capital cost and upkeep + unfunded liabilities + bins and new trucks and the cost of non tax paying city hall employees.
How is this logical?

Doug - it's not logical whatsoever. In fact, it's absurd.

d&c
regarding lawsuits i found this...though a little bit old it's quite interesting
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/local/article/500669--city-of-guelph-reveals-its-lawsuit-list
Additionally in the last week alone you've accused myself and southie of living in a different world...while at the same time stating "you refuse to stoop to my level".
Seems rather hypocritical if I may.

Regarding more studies on bins etc... if you're looking for a consensus you'll never get it among councillors, or any other group who are asked to vote on anything. It's oft said Put 5 people in a room, you'll get 6 different opinions. Neat thing about democracy, majority rules if something is put to a vote. Sometimes, it's also prudent for a decision just to be made. The old adage paralysis by analysis lives large in today's world of study this, approval that, restudy this, permits over here...welcome to Red Tape World!

There are definitely some poor decisions and performances by this administration, as with every other administration. There are dozens, probably hundreds of projects, decisions etc... that are or have happened in the City that are great for residents, businesses etc.... that go un-noticed, or at minimal un-discussed on here among KF bashers. Food for thought

TM Cochrane:
Thanks for the link.
The City has indicated that this list of lawsuits would be published semi-annually. That was March 12, almost 8 months ago.
Can somebody wake the sleeping beauty?

T.M Cochrane
Interesting take on what i said and did not
say.
I looked back in our previous posts and did
not come across were i said you live in a
different world than myself.
I said you must be wearing rose colored
glasses and maybe you should step back into
reality but no where will you find were i
said you live in a different world than myself.
Your body is on this earth but you are just a little confused.That is all.
Now i did say that about Southie because
the last post was pretty out there.
Anyways again i state that i will not stoop to your to your level of primitive thinking.

T.M Cochrane
Hey just to relieve your mind i will say
now you are living in a whole different
world.I read in your last post were you
state if you put 5 people in a room you will
get 6 opinions.
Just in saying that you must in on the
"Farbridge posse".Hey wait that must be how
so much stuff gets passed on council.

d and c - As posts go here when one tries to defend, as all too often, incomplete and or misleading information is posted as to transparencies and justifications for the performance of this Mayor and her supporters. The legalities of this city is one and the post above is nowhere near the actual situation. As to moving ahead with the bin situation, first off if you haven't lived in an area that has bins, then how do you know what is good or bad? I can say this though, back somewhere around January, Farbridge stated that all the bugs/issue's had not been worked out regarding the bin system. They still haven't been, but they are going ahead blindly. Talk about leadership. The claim of some $460,000 in savings is simply hogwash, unless you know how the whole program is going to work. Take a look at Calgary's system. Two bin system. Recyclables and garbage. Cost $8/bin/month. Bins are property of Calgary and only need a phone call for immediate replacement. Multi tenant facilities are not included and have waste pick up by waste management company. Garbage trucks are very aggressive in their pick up and deposit and as such, bins are subject to damage. Calgary has back alley system so majority are kept out of site in back alley's. Calgary garbage collection also includes garbage collection. That is, something spilled is cleaned up by the city almost immediately (Not like here where the only way a clean up happens is if you or I do it or the wind blows it away). Has Guelph given any thought to this (No). They are just demanding that we take the bins, no protection from bacterial growth, figure it out and live with it. This all so they can be the so called leader in environmental issue's. Of course they have a long way to go to catch Edmonton. It really boils down to, how much money do we want to throw at this? Already $33mil, facility and looking at $15mil for trucks and bins and who knows what to iron out bugs during this so called commissioning. Let's not forget the words, "we have not had any odour problems" as apposed to "we do not have any odour releases". It's all in how you say it.

Go to the meeting, I voted for 2 people to go to the meeting for me! Their each picking up close to $30,000 a year to be there and both of them do it on the side as in part time. This ward system is complete bullshit. We need professional representation. The only way to rid our selves of this self serving bogus form of representation is to make voting mandatory; mandatory at all levels of government. No more decisions made by people who carried half the vote of a 30% turn out. If some one has an idea on how to accomplish this then I would happily do what I could to help.

Geo - On that point yes we are paying them to do a job. Unfortunately, as you note with this ward system we are not getting the job needed, to be done. We still don't have that balance from left to right we need to be effective, logical and still look after the people and environment. Sure glad, in some ways, not much time left for this family in Guelph.

geo, the Ward system is a good one. If everyone is responsible for representing the interests of a neighbourhood, no one really is. Perhaps it's time to look Cam's questions for reform, though. He's bringing forward some fresh thinking. Maybe it's time to reform how we do the ward system here --

Doug: If we all just dump our trash on the side of the road it'll cost $0 per tonne. How's that for logic?
Maybe composting has benefits that are worth the cost.

Hi everyone
Classic quote taken from today's Guelph
Tribune.
"any facility in the early phases of it's
commissioning can have hiccups'.According
to newspapers reports out of Hamilton,Maple
Reindeer and the city of Hamilton are
sharing the more than 1 million cost of dealing with odours at the Hamilton composting plant which opened in 2006.
Peter Muller (from Maple Reindeer)doesn't
see it that way.
They are not upgrading because we've had issues,we're upgrading to keep the facility
state of the art.said Muller of the Hamilton renovation.
He said the situation in Guelph cannot be
compared with the situation in Hamilton.
The upgrades to the Hamilton facility include installations of a exhaust chimney which Guelph plant already has.
The two plants use the same technology
but Guelph is newer so elements that are considered upgrades in Hamilton came standard on the Guelph model.
It is what they consider a state of the art facility and it will comply with the ministers odour guidelines,said Muller.

In that statement from Mr Muller i noticed he did not once say it will be odour free.
He is quoted saying "it will comply with
the ministers odour guidelines'
Interesting????.
So after 4 years of operating do they still
classify it as the early phases of the
operation of the composting plant.
So all the people out there that wanted
prove here it is.
I just hope that we don't go thru the same
4 years of start up hiccups and then they
decide that there needs to be upgrades done to keep it with in the standards of the ministry.
Just saying.

Hi Jim
I agree with you 100%.
My post to T.M Cochrane is ridicules.
It was meant to see how fast his/her head
can spin.
I just had a feeling that saying that
farbridge posse statement would get him/her
going and from his other statements it
worked.
But thx for clearing that up.Jim.

D&C
If i'm being told to "step back into reality" how does that differ from 'living in a different world" LOL semantics?
Nothing that can be said on an otherwise anonymous forum will ever get me riled up, I promise you that.

Now lets return to the subject at hand, rather then something else that's going foul in this conversation.

D&C - it does become amusing here with some of the posters. Things like where it would cost us $0.00 to dump our trash at the side of the road is typical of how the Farbridge supporters try to justify all that is going on at city hall.
That is an interesting post you have from the Hamilton operation. I find it interesting in that Maple is speaking to their operations there but not here. Is there a muzzle on them here. Or, is it that I go back to the "we don't have an odour problem" as apposed to "we don't have any odour releases". Want to bet that when this all shakes out it will be "we didn't have any odour problems and you will have to live with the odour releases"?
More hogwash and whitewash by our Mayor and supporters. And by the way GOC, I don't go along with the commissioning problems either as, in any facility grand opening, bugs have been worked out. That's why it is called a grand opening. At least that is how the real world works and I do understand the caveat here is that this is Guelph... ;-)

D&C: That the best you can do? 'I never explicitly said that?' Really? Go back and read your posts again. Or plug a 'you imply' into my post, whatever.

Either way, my question stands.

(Keep babbling.)

Jim: What colour is the sky in your 'real' world?

I'm working on a project now that had a grand opening over a year ago-- still tracking down commissioning problems.

I wonder how they 'worked out the bugs' on the wet plant before they started accepting waste? Neat trick, that.

That's why they're called commissioning problems: they're *problems* that aren't evident until *commissioning*. If they were worked out before commissioning, they'd be called construction problems. If they were worked out before construction, they'd be called design problems. See the pattern?

I'm going to guess...pink?

For the record, I think the wet plant stinks. In more ways than one.

My objection here is limited to the posters who jumped the gun, condemning the plant as unworkable after one bobble without giving the technicians responsible the chance to fix it. The hysterical NIMBYs and the mindless city bashers are only proving one thing:

Southie right.

And that I intensely dislike.

In future, when I have to admit that Southie was right and the city has been mindlessly bashed on this blog before, I am going to remember you amateurs.

(Disclaimer: Southie is right only on this one small section of this one small issue. Southie remains wrong on just about everything else, including some supplementary posts on this issue. The fact that Southie is right about mindless city bashers being here does not mean that the mindless city bashers are necessarily wrong on any issue other than this one. Given the silliness of the current mayor and council, a mindless city basher will be right well over 90% of the time-- far more often than Southie's mindless Farbridge defence. GOC Holdings Inc. hastens to add that even a magic 8-ball may be right some of the time and random chance will certainly be right more often than Southie.)

GOC - We haven't really disagreed until now. Don't really care if you think my sun is a different colour or not, but in my world, grand opening of a facility means it works to specifications. Start up means the plant operates. Equipment failures will happen, but we always have backups. Not sure what projects you are working on, but can assure you the ones I have been on, meet specifications on startup.

Let's be clear here, this organic facility is not a nuclear reactor. It is simply an air containment unit with a bunch of filters. You can call in all the so called technicians you want but it is simply a building of 4 walls, a roof, fans and filters. Oh ya, there is a bunch of monitoring equipment that is high tech, but that's it.
You may see my sun as pink, but that's only because you are looking through your rose coloured glasses. Not going to mince words with you GOC as for the most part you have been a sanity here, but this organics facility is turning out to be a h_ll of a lot more than what it really is.

"I wonder how they 'worked out the bugs' on the wet plant before they started accepting waste? Neat trick, that."

GOC - I trust you never considered turning over a plant without checking the systems with actual product running as trials first. Would love to see how the various Ministries, Insurance Companies and Stake Holders would cotton to that. Haven't seen one yet, but maybe you have some examples, like the Guelph Organics Facility.

Wow, I'm, a hysterical NIMBY now.. Wow the name name calling came quick this time around. At least last time it too a few years until the insults were flying. Let me tell you something GOP.....if this was in your backyard your tune would change. Trust me on that. You know the saying, walk in a mans shoes first. Did you know they are trying to take away residential zoning in this area, specifically our community as to prevent any NIMBY activity. Do you think that is fair. they say our neighbourhood isn't compatible with that organics facility, but if I recall we were here before them....do you think our neighbourhood was compatible with that facility before they decided to put it there?

The NIMBY comments are not constructive or warranted as the residents of this area have lived through this nightmare already for over 10+ years. We know how bad it can get and were promised that this time it would be different. The city was the one that decided once again to build the plant where it is, not us, even though the location is unsuitable for such an operation if it cannot operate odour free. The MOE has set in place a very strict CofA for the facility and if the facility cannot meet the CofA, it will be fined, forced to shut down to attempt to address the problem and then reopen again. This stop/start could go on for years. Who is going to pay for that? Who is on the hook for dealing with Waterloo's compost when this happens? How much is this going to all cost?

"Odour is a contaminant regulated under the Environmental Protection Act. The Ministry of the Environment has the power to investigate and require facilities to take measures to abate the release of odours. Facilities can be required to implement potentially costly corrective measures. If abatement is unsuccessful, facility closure and/or prosecution may follow.

Composting facilities should be physically separated from other land uses to help mitigate potential adverse effects such as odours, dust, litter, and noise. This is usually accomplished by setting the composting operation back from the property line and by using visual screens, such as
berms, fences, or landscaping. Adjacent land uses of particular concern include residential developments, schools, places of
worship, cemeteries, hospitals, long term care facilities, nursing homes or other public institutions, and environmentally sensitive areas such as wetlands. In addition to separating or screening a facility from its neighbours visually, compost operators may need much larger "buffer zones" to allow for odours generated at the site to dissipate before
they reach a neighbour. Historically, odour emissions have been the most common cause of
composting facility closures. Guidance regarding buffer zones is provided in Section 13, Odour Control.

Adverse Effect - Under EPA Section 1 "adverse effect" means one of more of: (a) impairment of the quality of the natural environment for any use that can be made of it, (b) injury or damage to property or to plant or animal life, (c) harm or material discomfort to any person, (d) an adverse affect on the health of any person, (e) impairment of the safety of any person, (f) rendering any property or plant or animal life unfit for use by man, (g) loss of enjoyment of normal use of property, and (h) interference with the normal conduct of business."

Source: Guideline for Composting Facilities
and Compost Use in Ontario

Hi
G.O.C
Sorry you are babbling again.Which question did you want to answer again?.


Hi Again G.O.C and Southie
See my problem with the plant is this
people like you that say we should just shut up about the plant and let them fix the
problem.
The problem with your theory is this
Is it going to be a small problem that is
fixable or a problem like Hamilton were there was a constant problem that now after
4 years of headache it is costing 1 million dollars to "correct".
If you read the article in the Guelph tribune when a Mr.Muller(from Maple REINDEER) is talking about
the Hamilton plant and how there is no comparison with the Guelph plant.But then he says that the Guelph plant will meet the
ministers standards for odour but not once did he say it will be odour free.Interesting.It seems like a very different story than what somebody tried to
sell us.
So the question is,is it odour free or not?
I think with all the "technicians"checking the system out they would have fixed the
problem by now if it was a small problem?.
My understanding is that they are still
processing the material that was dropped off before the plant shut down(got this information from a neighbor that still works at the plant).So even thou people are
complaining about the smells they are still
processing the material.
So from that i get that the people in the
effected area do not matter but the ,material does.(interesting).

Now this is for Southie,i mentioned in a
previous post about i did not think the
mayor or council did a reference check
on Maple Reindeer.And this kinda proves my
point that they saw and knew about the
problem in Hamilton but yet they proceeded
anyways.They said it will be odour free but yet even Mr .Muller does not say that and he is the rep from Maple Reindeer.
So surprise,surprise we were lied to again.

yawn ... so, is the plant fixed yet?

Nope - They haven"t figured out yet how to close the doors DC. Real technical stuff you know.

Funny you say that, Jim. I never understood how this plant could be odour-free when trucks come and go all day. Is there a dual-door airlock of some sort that prevents any and all air inside from getting out when trucks arrive? Or, is "negative pressure" inside essentially always sucking air into the plant, despite open doors?

DC - Technology today is either or. That's where I say all this state of the art stuff is not rocket science or a nuclear reactor. We have in essence a building of 4 walls and a roof, an air make up system, filtration and scrubbers and STATE OF THE ART MONITORING SYSTEM. (sniffers with alarms in other words). So if we think about this, truck enters bay1. If bay 1 has not been deodorized, so to speak, as soon as I open the door for this truck, odours escape. The same applies after the truck deposit's it's load and leaves the facility. Inside where the composting is being prepared the air is constantly being exchanged pulling odours to filtration and scrubbers before being exhausted which means there is also a large air make up system. Any of these fail and you will have odours escaping.
Wow, how technical and difficult can we make it.

OK Jim and whoever else is under a similar misconception, I'll say it one more time:
I am not a Farbridge supporter. I didn't vote for her (and yes, I did vote) and I disagree with many of her spending priorities. But on a blog like this I can see how a relatively neutral party might appear, by comparison and contrast, to be a die-hard supporter.

Yes the building is under a negative pressure system and according to the C of A has to maintain a negative pressure in the building at all times...good luck with that

OK, maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. I should think more like Southie who said
If we all just dump our trash on the side of the road it'll cost $0 per tonne. How's that for logic?
Maybe composting has benefits that are worth the cost.
Yes Southie, Like added smell and dropping home values.
Those aren't flaws or promblems. They're upgrades and added features.
Using your logic, the more money we spend, the less trash we will have to put out.
Now lets get serious.
Can anybody determine if the contract requirements differ from what the public has been told and if so why?

which contract? The Certificate of approval from the mnistry of Environment, the AIM contract, the Maple Reinders or the Waterloo contract? There are so many

Karen the red-faced Mayor
Tried to get a stink free plant
But when she turned it on
You should hear the neighbors rant
All of the stink blew their way
Just like the smelly one before
Karen just doesn't get it
Why the people are so sore
Then one smelly Xmas Eve
Santa came and said
Karen here is lots of Fabreze
To cover up where you have err'd.
But the neighbors still don't trust her
As their property values drop
Karen the red faced Mayor
Can't you make the damned thing stop.

With apologies to Santa, Rudolph and all our supporters who object to this stinking mess.

Is a recall a real option in Ontario? I'm all for that. In the mean time is there any way to get Wettstein and Dennis to serve with more resolve at more council meetings?

(Note this comment was edited. It used graphic language.)

None of Jim's projects ever have any commissioning problems.

Yeah, right.

Come off it, Jim. You know as well as I do that on a project of any size, things can be up to spec on turnover and go straight to hell right after. There are all sorts of things that look just fine until you start using them. Or, everyone thought they were up to spec but you find out later (usually at 1500 on Friday with a angry constituent having whatever level of politician call your boss) that despite your best efforts it wasn't up to spec after all. Or, some regulatory authority insists on some change that completely screws up the project, and it takes thirty grand worth of engineer time, useless equipment, lost income, and meetings before the idiots admit they're wrong. All on your dime.

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that nothing is as simple as it appears. What could the failure at the wet plant have been? It might have been mechanical, procedural, staff error, design, or something else.

I don't know what it was.

And neither do you.

So while saying for the record that I was against the wet plant from the first, think the city's response was cowardly and untruthful, and resent the cost, I still stick to my point: give them a chance to fix the thing.

All the hysterical NIMBYism is doing is ruining any credibility the hysterical NIMBYs might have had. And by extension, everyone on this blog. I don't appreciate being lumped in with mindless city bashers or hysterical NIMBYs, thanks. I'm not pro-council by any means, but I'll give the staff the chance to make things work before screaming for the closing of the $32 million facility.

That's called being reasonable.

In a few years, either the plant will be working, or it won't. One of us is going to look pretty silly. Either way, I'll be able to say I gave it a fair shake.

Pink. Definitely pink.

Gotta love that pink GOC. Of course you know only real men wear pink. You are right about problems after commissioning but then again this is not a complicated building. Name one thing in this building that is earth shattering or otherwise. You make it sound like this is a high volume electronics or nuclear facility. Therein lies a problem for the general public as they don't know. Let's put this in perspective.
As to giving them a chance, guess you missed my post whereas I said we are far to far into this, not to make it work. But guess what, again go back to the earth shattering technology of this building, what's taking so long to fix? Gimme a break. I'm not against composting. I'm not even against this facility, at least the idea of it. I am against the size, the process being dumped on us as bins and trucks go, and the manipulation this council has gone through to sell 4 walls and a roof.

Oh, real men wear pink all right, Jim.

The thing ain't rocket science, true. But the mistake could have been a simple one. Perhaps as simple as someone hitting the wrong button.

As for what's taking so long, almost certainly briefings and meetings and reports and plans and revisions to the plans that the briefings and meetings and reports were about. Translation: slanting the explanation to protect certain behinds.

Get the right person over a beer and the definitive explanation is probably less than twenty-five words and starts with "Some idiot..."

Odours. They won't kill you. They're annoying on a very occasional basis. If annoyance is a health concern, so are council, government, drivers, and this blog. Ditto the wifi whiners, the Wellington Water Whiners, and now the wet plant whiners. To say nothing of my three favourite flavours of NIMBY: quarry, water, and wind. Are you people shrinking violets, so delicate that a mere whiff will make you melt away?

I despair. What will my beloved country be in fifty years? When the possible or imagined evils of wi-fi, windmill noise, and occasional odours paralyze our actions?

Can no one prioritize? Is basic budgeting going the way of forthright leadership? Does science no longer have a place in political discourse? Are we too well-off when trivialities command our attention?

There are places where people worry about their six-year-old walking barefoot through the streets to carry water- only the streets are also the sewers.

There are places where the local warlord is the good guy- if you pay, he can keep the bandits from killing your family.

There are places where people have to worry about being forcibly evicted from their own country.

I used to think that Canadians were generally independent, self-reliant, robust people with a strong work ethic and sense of fair play.

Now I see far too many over-wealthy, spoon-fed, litigious whiners with nothing better to do between Anderson and The Kardashians but complain about how little the productive sections of society share with the idle. I see otherwise reasonable people who can't do anything without the benevolent government to protect them from themselves. I see those who should have better things to do protesting every new technology, development, and change. Everywhere, disability is the new in thing, and entitlement replaces industry.

Oh, wait. Maybe it's just worse in Granolaville.

One person, one vote -- I have to give mine to Jim. GOC, I think you're digging in your heels a bit too much on this one.

Nice sermon Grumpy, but save it for a Sunday when someone gives a crap what you have to say. If the stench of the compost plant is no big big deal, you currently have your choice of several nice country properties for sale on Stone Rd that you could purchase. Go on, put your money where your mouth is.

I repeat what I said before. And GOC it is time for your treatments? Have you not been taking your drugs? Naughty, Naughty
For those of you who did not get it sing this to the tune of Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer.

Karen the red-faced Mayor
Tried to get a stink free plant
But when she turned it on
You should hear the neighbors rant
All of the stink blew their way
Just like the smelly one before
Karen just doesn't get it
Why the people are so sore
Then one smelly Xmas Eve
Santa came to say
Karen here is lots of Fabreze
To cover up your big misplay.
But the neighbors still don't trust her
As their property values drop
Karen the red faced Mayor
Can't you make the damned thing stop.


OK I modified it a bit because I am a perfect poetess. Enjoy!

I have to ask, being a very long time resident and home owner....does anybody not remember way back in time, before Stone Road Mall and the Holiday Inn, we tried a three bin system for well over a year in this area of the city. Other residential areas had different trials such as two and three stream bag systems, blue boxes and green bags etc... Now, after a long trial period, it was determined that the bins were too inefficient, time consuming and not cost effective, so they were removed and the trucks were "dispersed" somewhere and the bags were returned. My query is, what has changed to make things so much better and cost effective than before?? the salaries lower? The bins cheaper? The trucks less expensive? I think not. So, where would one get a peek at the test results from that year plus trial? I would love to read it, but many city hall "things" are not too easy to locate. Any ideas??

I am sure GOC the mistake was probably a simple one. The technology said we had no odour problems. Of course this was not clarified by all the perimeters of the stated facility, which are probably not close to what we are dealing with here. Secondly, it was not stated that there were no odour releases from the so called state of the art facility. So we are back to where you are becoming, no better than Farbridge, in giving credence to a so called sophisticated facility with commissioning challenges that is no more than 4 walls and a roof. Man, you are losing it on this one. Don't play almighty with words and make more of the issue than it is.
PS - If you are really into commissioning facilities, then cut the BS. You would know exactly what I am talking about.
Booker also has it right above.

I love that this issue is so messed up that it has GoC and me on the same side.
New implementations of any technology fail so often once they're turned on engineers even have a generic term for it - infant mortality. Throw in operator error and/or insufficient training and you're guaranteed to have some missteps in the first few weeks. As a project manager and engineer myself, I live this every day. If this thing still smells in a few months then the city should buy all the houses at market value and use the land to build a combination library/rec center/skateboard park. The current residents can then move to a 100% smell-free location. I hear Baffin Island is certified odour-free.


Southie
Said like a true farbridge supporter.
Hey do i smell pork????.

Jim:

There's no facility, no project, no endeavour so sophisticated that some idiot can't screw it up.

Perhaps someone forgot to check a gasket.

Speaking of NASA, I'm reminded of the $327-million Mars Climate Orbiter. Crashed and burned in the Martian atmosphere. Why?

(I love this one.)

Someone mixed up metric and imperial measurements. They call it the "metric mixup."

Seriously. No fracking around.

Expensive spacecraft go pfffft. Expensive wet plant stinky.

Interestingly, NASA followed up with 4 successful missions.

Give Maple a shot.

Geo:

An allegation of unequal treatment.

There is only one logical way for Scott to respond. Not by re-editing your post to include whatever bad word you used, oh, no. The logical way to respond is to come down on everyone (primarily me) about foul language.

Profit to you: zero.
Impact on me: negative.
Impact on others: reduced freedom, increased enforcement cost, whiners happy.

It works the same way in the army. We call it a "blade." Do you see how my (numerous) objections to widely diverse whiny practices are connected?

Well folks, we have learned a couple things here:

1) This organics facility is so advanced that it can be equated to a space ship. No wonder it can't be fixed in, how many days has passed again?

2) We need to be patient while our $32mil facility begins to rot because of ,?????, or silly meetings to define who and what is to blame. See, if we give Maple a shot, maybe they can figure out organic waste is smelly and neighbours are too close who will smell smelly. I didn't know, by the way, that Maple was more than a contractor. Now they are an organics facility designer.

I am glad, we have been enlightened so.

Bonus, and we thought Farbridge didn't know what she was doing. We just justified the 3.52% tax increase, after all, who knew how much all this was going to cost us to re-start this space ship.

The, seemingly, projected arrogance coming out of city hall is slightly overwhelming. Joe public tax payer, just doesn't hold a candle when it comes to the smarts these folks have. After all, they have said,, their supporters have as well.

Cut the bull crap, Jim.

Sorry, language. Cut the organic end product of a male bovine, Jim.

(Lacks the ring.)

The point was that even the biggest, most sophisticated projects can have very simple problems. Our wet plant, without nearly the sophistication or redundancy of a spacecraft, is going to have problems, too.

You should probably read posts more closely before you comment on them.

Yep. Pink.

HI G.O.C
So what you are saying is all the plants that
Maple Reindeer have built and are operating
that they still have not worked out all the
bugs in their systems(air exchange,filters
etc).
I mean you figure that every air exchange
system,air filter and negative air lock door
would have a monitor on it so if there is a leak
and the monitor goes off the "experts"can go
over and check the system were the monitor
went off and know that this is were the problem is and fix said problem.
So like Jim said it is not a space ship it is just 4 walls with air exchange system,filters and a few air lock doors with sensors.
Pretty simple to me how about you????.

Uh, no?

I said precisely nothing about any other plant.

Easy to say just put a monitor on every door. But if you do that pretty soon your $32-million facility is $35-million. And so on.

The plant is built. The most economical option is to try to fix it so we can save on disposal, and maybe make a few bucks from Waterloo.

GOC - Yup I can cut the bull crap as long as you can. We are arguing about the same thing here. It is bull and we are getting into semantics. So, putting aside our political beliefs and getting on with the engineering, I suspect you are of the same thought as me. This is BS no matter how we slice and dice. Let's call a spade a spade. This whole building is BS and there is no logical explanation to what is going on. We are into to it for some $33Mil and we can't afford not to make it work. So I agree, let's see what they can do. In the meantime, the city is feeding us a lot of bull crap on this facility, so let's not lose sight of reality here. I say good luck to us all in this endeavour and let's stop playing in the sand box. This is pure BS, plain and simple.

At the time, Marilyn was the principal percussionist for the San Antonio Symphony and an auxillary percussionist for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. That she was my teacher only briefly owed to my lack of discipline… which, translated, means that I never found time to practice. (Granted, this was because I was already a contributing writer for the campus newspaper, a music director at the campus radio station and a member of every musical ensemble the school had to offer.)

HI G.O.C
My point i was trying to make is this if
you build 5 compost plants hopefully sooner
or later you get better at it.

It still makes sense to have monitors on the
doors and air exchange systems sure it costs
a little more but the saving comes in when
something goes wrong and you have a bunch of
"engineers/experts "sitting around a conference table going one potato two potato
three potato four.Lets try this one...oops
it still leaks lets try this again.One potato,two potato,three potato four.and on and on and on.....
And i never said you said anything about any other plant.
Have a nice day.
(did the last bit just so i do not get
censored by scott)

GOCorporal, I admire your mind and you have a lot of good stuff to say, but on this one I think you are getting bogged down with Jim. Which I'm guessing is a state of affairs that goes against your grain and your past training. He has it right. He's out ahead. Time to catch up. Don't waste your time trying to outflank him.

Craig, are you saying Jim has it right that the plant is no more complex than four walls and a roof, or when he says there's no logical explanation for what's going on? Because I'm pretty sure he's wrong on both counts.

Southie -We wouldn't expect anything less from you.. :-)

If 4 walls and a lid cost $32 million, i'm going to fold up shop and head into the construction business. I'm sure I can do that for a minimum $16 million.

Heck i'll even throw in a couple of cubicles for the managers and a toilet, no extra cost (no change orders either) and a lifetime supply of Febreze for the neighbours.

Southie:
Misinformation @1. MR and its other spokepersons stated that they had built and were operating 4 plants thru some subsiduaries and they were clean. I was at one of those meetings where they assured the immediate neighbors of this.
Misinformation #2 They neglected to mention the many odor complaintss at the Hamiltop facility and at least One other.
Misinformation #3 The Stack was meant to solve the "Hamilton Problem! It did NOT,
In less than 3 months the plant was raising odor complaints which were VERIFIED by the MOE! Who do you believe?
Misinformation #4 Now the City wants to smak in a zoning change! Do you think this as well as other interferences from some members of the group of 8 might have caused this brave act by someon who also is a voter and taxpayer, I hope he runs in the next Municipal Election.
I could go on but I hope bloggers are starting to see the problem.

Serious Cynic
I would surely hope that more than just the bloggers will begin to see all the problems. Something has to give, and the way things are going, I am afraid the taxpayer is getting the really short and dirty end of the stick. This is all just the tip of the very foul iceburg, in my humble opinion!!

Jim: Right on.

Don't suppose we can count on the province to send in an auditor? I'd lust love to have that report made public!

GOC:
NO Way Josea.
THE MAH is gutless. Unless you can prove Total theft from Provincisal coffers or buggering babies, they will not address it. Just ask the fellow who ran the tourist tours. He asked the Ministry if they would lay charges against a Municipality who violated the legislation of the Province.
The answer of course after some tough teeth pulling was NO. The MAH preferred to leave those controversial issues to the Municipality too sort out.

So why do we have a Ministry called MAH when they are obviously gutless? Time to fire the senior gutless Beauracrats? I think so.

OK Pilgrims:
Lets go back to basics.
The Mayor in all her political agenda has had a thing for COMPOSTING. She was one of the pushers for the first Mistake. Unfortunately people with "Degrees" are not Engineers and do not understand the issues involved. Fortunately (but not for the Taxpayers) the first compost plant was implemented and lasted just under ten years before it rotted out. Unfortunately, in the attempt to become "environmental" leaders, the City overlooked some very important technical issues which led to the demise of the First Compost plant. It was not Mayor Quarrie and her "gang" who caused the plant to shut down. It was the stupidity of previous Councils of which Farbridge was a member. In brief it was the old NDP Mantra that INCINERATION or to use the 21st century description "Energy from Waste" was an environmental Boo-Boo!
So when the second plant costing over $32 millions was approved under the FARBRIDGE AGENDA",now this one took less than 3 months to fail. What a black eye for the Mayor and her "Green Agenda".
Do you not wonder why the CFO quit ater 5 days, and why the Director of planning resigned after less than 5 months citing serious claims of political interference in his public resignation. Bravo, but ignore the public spin by the Mayor's Office. Just ask yourselves, Why would a civil servant go public on his experience? Was it because he had discovered the worst Municipal can of worms that he had seen involved in in 27 years?
Why was Margaret Bower "let go", but when there is a "Gag" order one can only assume that they were fired and given a golden hand shake.
I only hope that you Farbridge supporters like Silly David are paying attention.

Serious Cynic - Although this maybe closer to the truth, I always hold a ray of hope. Some posters here think we live in our own little bubble with no notice from outside. Far be it from the truth. As I travel, and I am travelling across this country, I always find it interesting when I tell people I am from Guelph. Those that know the name rarely have a positive thing to say but rather, isn't that where....(whatever happened) and there have been a lot of those things here that continually get swept under the carpet by our illustrious mayor and her supporters. Then I attend a meeting like the recent AMO conference and when speaking with Mayors, CAO's, Councillors etc, from around the province and asked where I am from, invariably get the "Oh ya, sorry about that". Our actions and history precede us. All relating to the Farbridge regime. It's time we start listening to this as apposed to always saying how great we are and how wonderful this Mayor and council is. In front of them, the officials, say wonderful, but behind their backs it is the truth or perception that comes out.
We can't live in or on own little island for ever. Some one needs to come forward who will truly live on a platform of mutual respect, fiscal responsibility, trust, openness and knows how to spell the word transparency and harmony from the Mayor to the janitor. They have to instil that confidence in the city employees that they are great at what they do but give them the direction to project the same to the money people that want to help this city grow. Know what is right and wrong and performs their duties without the thought of themselves, but rather the people of Guelph.

Is there such a person????? Or is this all dreams???

to apologize to residents for the unpleasant odours and assure you we are taking every practical step to investigate and address them with the

Rob O’Flanagan, Mercury staff Mon Dec 12 2011

Fix for smelly compost plant in the works

GUELPH — A draft plan for addressing the odour problem experienced in the early stages of Guelph’s new compost facility contains a fix for the smells, a top city official said Monday.

But details of that proposed remedy are not being publicly revealed until the draft plan can be studied, questioned and possibly tweaked by a public liaison committee. The committee is to meet Dec. 20.

“Yes, of course, that’s the intention, is to create a fix for the problem,” said Janet Laird, Guelph’s director of planning, building, engineering and environment, speaking of the draft plan.

“We won’t, I guess, know for sure until it’s fully implemented and we get to monitor its effectiveness.”

The plan, she said, includes everything the facility’s designer/builder Maple Reinders, the city, the ministry and other principals “can think of to fix the problem.”

The nearly $33-million Organic Waste Processing Facility built by Maple Reinders Group Ltd. was lauded as an odour-free facility when it officially opened on Sept. 27. But it discontinued processing deliveries of additional green bag organic waste on Nov. 25 after several complaints were received from residents near the eastside plant.

Since then, the city has been sending residential wet waste to landfill.

Laird said on Nov. 28 she hoped the issue could be resolved within two weeks. On Monday, she said Maple Reinders has prepared a draft plan, and is continuing to work on the plant’s systems to address the problem.

While the plant is not receiving additional waste material, it is continuing to process the compost material inside. There have been no further odour escapes that the city is aware of, she added.

Laird said as a courtesy to public liaison committee members, she did not want to reveal details of the draft plan until a meeting is held with that group. But she said the plan was discussed with the Ministry of the Environment on Friday.

“There is a strong desire from both the ministry and the city to take it first to the public liaison committee before we share it with the community, because we want to respect the public liaison committee’s role in this,” Laird said.

“I think it’s safe to say that in the meantime, Maple Reinders is still undertaking their review of their air management and odour control systems,” she continued. “They’re making any upgrades as they go along that don’t require further approval.”

Ken Spira is president of the community action group Guelph Waste Management Coalition, and he is part of the public liaison committee. Some of the coalition’s members, who live near the plant, reported the odours in November.

He said Monday the city is seeking a special meeting on Dec. 20 “to review Maple Reinder’s draft action plan that was developed to investigate the facility’s odour management system.”

The city, he added, wants input from public liaison committee members on the plan.

Spira said he “has no clue what they are up to,” since he has not seen the draft plan. While he requested to have the meeting deferred until Jan. 12 due to the approach of Christmas, the city wants the meeting to proceed on Dec. 20 because there is a “need to finalize the plan as soon as possible.”

“Obviously, they have some sort of action plan which they’ve reviewed with the ministry,” he added. “I am at least grateful that any action plan will be discussed with the PLC so that we can comment prior to implementation, of whatever it is.”

roflanagan@guelphmercury.com

The plan, she said, includes everything the facility’s designer/builder Maple Reinders, the city, the ministry and other principals “can think of to fix the problem.”

Well at least they've gotten past the rotten leaves excuses and throwing Cargill under the bus and blaming them. This plant was supposed to operate odour free from the start, and now they're doing "everything they can think of" to fix the problem. I have to ask, what happens when this doesn't work?

Concerned Guelphite - Don't even think when this doesn't work out. Just turn over your bank account. After all, Maggie has already google'd your house and what the heck, based on that visual, we are going to afflict you. Interesting though, that all of a sudden, after all that preceded this and the promises made, we now have a solution??
Why didn't we have a solution when we built this facility? Why did we build it only to find we didn't have the right answers, which we promised on. Amazing that we can promise anything, we forgive, give another chance and then have to pay even more. Great budgeting Eh.
Oh and by the way, let's give them a chance to fix this.

Jim - I don't think they do have a solution. Doing "everything we can think of" doesn't really give me much confidence that they actually found a problem. It sounds more like an "it could be this or this or this or this or this" type of scenario. It sounds to me like they are just going to throw a whole bunch of mud (money) at the wall (problem) and hope that something sticks (works).

Can we assume that Chief Garbage Officer Janet Laird will honourably tender her resignation if this composting plant cannot be made odour-free as promised?

Why oh why did they just not build further out into the countryside? Half of the organics are already coming in from out-of-city anyway.

I could be wrong Ray, but I think one of the main reasons the City chose this site was because it already had a waste facility and therefore would not have required a full Environmental Assessment of the project.

Selecting another site would likely have required a full EA, including scientific justification for the project as well as intensive public consultation. And for a municipal waste facility, this is a very costly and demanding process.

There were two approaches that could have been taken: 'do it right' or 'do it fast'. Regrettably, it appears the City chose the latter.

Makes perfect sense. I guess the original site should have been re-thought, or the zoning around it. Dunlop Dr. is pretty close to downtown and everywhere else.

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Joanne

Joanne Shuttleworth is the newsroom lead in municipal affairs coverage for the Guelph Mercury. She is a former Guelph YWCA Woman of Distinction honouree and a past winner of an Ontario Newspapers Award for her work as an editor. You can reach her at jshuttleworth@guelphmercury.com

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About Chris

  • Chris Herhalt
    covers municipal affairs and politics for the Guelph Mercury. Prior to joining the Mercury he worked at The Record of Waterloo Region and at The Canadian Press. He can be reached at cherhalt@guelphmercury.com