Say what?

A city committee this week heard the city desperately needs a new fleet trainer to be approved during the 2013 budget process because, it seems, operators of city equipment aren't very safe.

Things have gotten so bad, in fact, the provincial Ministry of Transport has threatened to revoke the city's Commercial Vehicle Operator's Registration certificate. The CVOR, as it's known, is the piece of paper which allows all city vehicles larger than a pick-up truck to be on the road.

That's right, if the city doesn't improve its safety rating fire trucks, ambulances, plows, construction equipment, buses and all other large vehicles could be permanently parked.

A recent MTO audit revealed drivers of Guelph equipment have been involved in 47 collisions and received 44 convictions for offences while operating city vehicles.

Remarkably, the operations and transit committee heard, the city is not allowed to take disciplinary action against a driver who has been ticketed as the ticket is considered a level of discipline and the city can't pile on.

That means a bus driver, for example, with five speeding tickets received while driving the bus can not be fired unless the accumulation of tickets causes him or her to lose his or her license.

"Professionally I have to uphold that," operations and transit boss Derek McCaughan told me this week. "Personally, I don't agree with it."

 

Comments

[Steve]

As Operations and Transit boss, was Mr. McCaughan a part of the collective bargaining committee that agreed to this clause in the drivers' contract? If so, he needs to answer for that. Why did he approve a collective agreement that contained a clause he personally doesn't agree with?
Also, what training programs are currently in place under his watch? Are they productive?
His attempts to blame all this on the unions is disappointing.

[geo]

What happened to the old fleet trainer?

[dstm]

So off topic
But was curious to know where the early comments went/disappeared from the main site re your article about "big ticket items" featuring none other than Cam

[Brad Kelloway]

Rather than painting all City departments with the same brush with broad statements and a photo showing the Municipal st PW yard. Let's get some facts. Public Works staff have had very few incidents over the past handful of years. Many of the past 5 years have zero accidents and zero convictions. The women and men operating this equipment often work in the worst conditions with large equipment.
Thanks to women and men who work to make our Community safe.

Brad Kelloway
President
CUPE Local 241

[Scott Tracey]

Thanks for that comment, Brad. When I went to get a photo to accompany the story I simply wanted to get a shot of larger city vehicles, and did not mean to imply anything about Public Works staff. (whatever vehicles we photographed would likely have resulted in a similar objection)
Also in response to an earlier comment, I want to be clear that Derek McCaughan never attempted to blame the city's unions. He simply, at committee and again with me on the phone, explained the clauses in the city's collective agreements prevent double punishment for the same action.
That was a statement of fact and not, as I saw it, an attempt to attribute blame.

[Serious Cynic]

Geo:
The old fleet trainer is obviously missing "inaction" :-)

[Craig Chamberlain]

I agree that bad managers will use unions as scapegoats to cover their incompetence.

If that clause is in the collective agreement, isn't because it was negotiated into it? That involves agreement on both sides; maybe both sides can agree to put the public first and let that one drop out of it next time around.

[Serious Cynic]

Let me see - 44 CONVICTIONS on 47 COLLISIOMS?? That is 93.6% Wow
It would be nice if the Mercury would list them, after all the convictions are a matter of public record.
The City has to get the offending clause removed from the Collective agreement.
That is fundamental for the "right to manage" to work. Looks to me like some pretty week negotiating by the City.
Time for the City to get tough which could even include CONTRACTING OUT.

[geo]

I'm going to assume Guelph has never had a fleet trainer so I'm also going to assume the people the City hires to operate their equipment are already trained and hold the appropriate licenses.
If your qualified operator's performance is not up to standard then it should be up to the operator to upgrade his/her skills.
If this does not solve the problem then the operator should be replaced.

[Steve]

This story is badly lacking in facts. All we know is that city fleet drivers get a total of about nine traffic tickets a year on average, and that they get in about the same number of collisions (fault was not mentioned, neither was whether the convictions were related to the collisions)
Have any drivers received multiple convictions anywhere close to the extreme hypothetical bus driver? Is this contract rule that prevents drivers from disciplinary action really part of the problem? What disciplinary action is appropriate for a speeding ticket?
Also, what are the real chances that ambulances and fire trucks actually get shut down by the province? My guess is zero.
Sensationalist scare mongering with an anti-union angle.

[Scott Tracey]

Steve,
FACT: In the past five years, city operators have received 44 convictions and been involved in 47 collisions.
FACT: Because of this record, the MTO has issued a warning letter to the city to improve its safety record.
FACT: Collective agreements not only prevent the city from imposing another form of discipline beyond the ticket (in most cases) but also do not require operators to tell the boss if they got a ticket in the first place.
FACT: If the CVOR certificate is suspended, fire trucks and ambulances would not be permitted to operate. I agree this is incredibly remote, but it is a possible outcome of the MTO warning.
I don't know if any drivers have received a number of tickets close to "the extreme hypothetical bus driver," but my point was that city managers don't either.
You seem to be suggesting if a driver had received four or five speeding tickets the city could do something about it, but the truth -- and what I was attempting to relay -- is that management would never be in a position to impose discipline because they wouldn't have known about the egregious driving in the first place.
I would suggest the story -- and my column -- were accurate reflections of the current situation. If they came across as "sensationalist scare mongering" perhaps that's because the actual situation is truly concerning.
"Anti-union angle?" Don't tell the members of our union, of which I'm chair.

[mp]

I've been involved in the transport industry for many years, staved off a number of cvor audits and suspensions with different companies, all the while fostering linkages with underwriters to reduce insurance premiums. Being a fleet trainer is not an easy task and you won't get much for 70k. There is no union agreement that can stand the test of an employee failing competency and maintenance of applicable requisites.

[Craig Chamberlain]

"There is no union agreement that can stand the test of an employee failing competency and maintenance of applicable requisites."

mp, if I understand your point, this is ultimately a management issue?

mp, to pick up from my response to Scott's column on-line, would you also say that the kind of convictions involved here are not something you could use in a making the case for the trainer position, if the bigger issue is a collective agreement clause that generally means, regarding this kind of stuff, that staff are not accountable to their employer?

It seems that we are avoiding the elephant in the room, which is, what has had to happen for a staff to be accountable?

If both sides aren't willing to just let this one drop off the table during bargaining maybe both sides can agree to split the insurance premiums.

No? Oh.

Time to put the public first. In the end, (almost) everybody wins.

[D C]

I would be interested in knowing how this compares to other cities. On the surface it seems bad, but is it? Consider that city operated vehicles often must drive in various manners to conduct regular business (like snow plowing, waste collection, construction, emergencies, etc.) that most of us would never need to do, it does not surprise me that they would likely see a higher rate of offense.

Are these simple speeding tickets? If it's doing 65kph in a 50 zone on Gordon, then big deal ... every single one of us does that everyday, but we aren't on the road for 8hrs so let's put this in perspective. Are they for running amber or red lights? I dare anyone here to drive a bus and try to get thru a busy intersection with all of us car and SUV idiots mindlessly deeking in and out all around you. That a city bus runs a red light to clear the intersection after getting cut off by a soccer mom, is not a problem for me. That a city cop then ticketed that driver is also not a problem for me.

And "collisions"? What sort? Bumping into that same soccer mom who forced her way back in front of the bus to make a right turn because she's too important to wait 30 seconds? Or maybe backing into a car while navigating around a bunch of illegally parked vehicles to get into a park to collect bins? I'd like to know what these offenses and convictions are for.

Impaired driving? Stunt driving? Taking out a row of parked cars? OK, that's serious, but I doubt that's what these convictions are so let's put this in perspective.

[Kellee]

@ DC shouldn't matter what the convictions are for...City drivers are not "above the law" and should be ticketed accordingly. Just because "everyone does it" doesn't make it right

[Dis-a-Ray Antiques]

The worst of the city drivers has to be the bus drivers, they appear to be so chronically short of break-time that they run reds on a regular basis. They have also killed at least 2 pedestrians in the last decade, and GO or Greyhound has killed another. I wish that the figures had been broken down as to dept., and that we were able to compare to other cities. Perhaps if the local media wasn't being accused of scare-mongering then they could get on this. In my experience, the plows and garbage trucks and firetrucks all seem fine, it is the busses that you have to fear.

[Serious Cynic]

Ray:
I think that the bus drivers need a bit of slack.
With the status of road repair in this City, it is impossible for the buses to stay on schedule.
If the City were to change the travel/arrival time to 30 minute intervals I think that woould take a lot of pressure off the bus drivers. And just wait 'til winter gets here!!
"Well planned is half done"!!

[Steve]

44 traffic violations over 5 years for the entire City of Guelph fleet just doesn't sound out of the ordinary to me, and unless it's just one or two drivers racking up all those tickets then the non-discipline clause isn't even a factor in this story.
I understand, Scott, that you're quoting Mr. McCaughan and my issue is more with him than with you, but whether you intended it or not, the story ends up reading as 'union rules are jeopardizing our fire and ambulance services', which I don't think is the case at all.
As for McCaughan's claim that they don't know about their drivers getting tickets...aren't all convictions reported to the relevant insurance companies? (mine sure are), and isn't the City of Guelph the policy holder?

[D C]

yeah, it is rather unbelievable that the city and/or department heads would not know that an employee had been charged on duty, let alone convicted. that doesn't add up, Scott.

kellee, what a delightfully naive comment. do you ground your kids for a week if they swear? or just if they kill the cat?

[Kellee]

@ DC if they break the rules, they suffer the consequences....whatever that may be...if you speed, run red lights/amber lights etc and it's a moving violation...you get a ticket...NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!

[D C]

come on kellee, read what i wrote. im not saying they should not have been charged and convicted ... im saying that not all "convictions" are the same and it's misleading to say "47 collisions and received 44 convictions for offences" without a) contextualizing it with respect to other cities, and b) providing details as to the actual offences.

[geo]

Are you guys saying bus drivers are putting themselves, their passengers and everybody else on the road at risk by trying to meet an impossible schedule?

[Dis-a-Ray Antiques]

I'm saying that a certain minority, and it IS a minority, drive like banshees. I forgot about the handicapped individual who tumbled over because they wern't adequately restrained, so we are talking at least 3 deaths in about a decade. This is hardly "fender-benders", it is people being hurt and killed. Add more bikes to the mix and the carnage will only get worse. And the worst thing is that there is possibly no solution.

[Craig Chamberlain]

Whoa, there is always a solution. But it takes reasonable commitment from everyone.

[Dis-a-Ray Antiques]

You see black and white, I see gray getting grayer with a touch of red.